The Divine Dilemma

December 23, 2020

Don’t let the jokes at the start of this episode fool you – the conversation gets intense as the group debates different emphases on God’s redemptive plan.

In On the Incarnation, Athanasius explains that God chose to send Jesus Christ “for the sake of His [own] name.” But, as Keith and Adam discuss, modern evangelicals typically say that God’s redemption was because of mankind’s sinfulness. Through examples from their own church backgrounds, Joey and David help show how both answers are correct, and the group generally agrees that God redeemed man for His own honor/glory AND to address sin.

But why do we need to understand both reasons? The group gives some insightful answers about how God redeeming for God’s sake lines up with the rest of Scripture, how by abolishing death God dealt with sin and its consequence, and how these reasons together give a more complete picture of the gospel.

Bonus: listen to this episode to find out the origin of the word “erudite!”

 

Jump Through the Conversation

  • [0:40] Adam’s intro

  • [3:34] General goofiness, jokes and notes about southerners and various denominations

  • [10:41] Why did God redeem mankind? For the sake of His name

  • [12:00] Keith: for modern evangelicals, God’s redemption is all about the forgiveness of sins

    • God sent Christ to bring us into union with Himself

    • God’s reason is divine, not individualistic

    • We are tied to His glory

    • [13:49] Adam: yes, evangelicals do emphasize God sending Jesus for our sins

      • Keith: correct, but incomplete

      • Keith: would evangelicals disagree with Athanasius?

  • [15:17] Joey: difference between a “two-chapter gospel” (fall, redemption) and a “four-chapter gospel” (creation, fall, redemption, new creation)

    • Four-chapter gospel closer to what Athanasius is saying

    • God redeems us not just “legally” but to be made new

    • [16:20] David: original grace, corruption, elevated grace

  • [19:21] Why the emphasis (on people or on God) matters pastorally 

    • [19:58] Joey: emphasis on God as the cause is consistent with how God is talked about in the Bible

      • God’s goodness is primary, not His anger/wrath

      • Opposes our narcissistic tendencies

    • [22:37] Keith: “death was defeated by death”

    • [22:46] Joey: more complete view of the gospel

  • [25:12] Adam’s outro, disclaimers, recap

 

Links and Resources

 

A resource of the Chattanooga House of Prayer