Athanasius and Reason
(Part 2)

December 16, 2020

Last week, the group began looking at Athanasius’ relationship with reason and philosophy, debating whether or not he was strategically using philosophy in On the Incarnation and what place philosophy has in modern apologetics. This episode continues the conversation and moves into a rousing discussion about whether or not an encounter with Jesus Christ is a sufficient introduction to the faith or if reason is needed as well.

After revisiting how context affects the perception and use of philosophy within the Church, the group responds to Keith’s claim that On the Incarnation is exclusively using the person of Jesus as its argument, not philosophical reasoning. Joey and David contend that Athanasius uses reason to prepare the audience for an encounter with Christ, but Keith makes a historical argument that people experienced Jesus through the church itself. This opens the door for general discussion about how people come to faith: by experiencing Jesus, or through reason, or both.

This episode is rich in theological dialogue with real implications about how we ought to live and evangelize. Listen in to hear Keith’s take on how Christ can be encountered, how this connects to Jesus’s disciples and the saints, and more!

 

Jump Through the Conversation

  • [0:05] Adam’s intro and recap

  • [3:12] Argument that there’s only one God because of one creation

  • [4:23] Protestant tendency to be “Biblicists”

  • [6:05] Using philosophy might be about culture, not education

  • [7:01] Argument that God sent Jesus at a specific time when people had a reasonable capacity for receiving the Incarnation

  • [9:06] Different church traditions have different standards for what can be used in addition to scripture

  • [11:25] Keith: Athanasius is using Jesus as his apologetic, not reason/philosophy

    • [13:37] Pastoral task is to return to putting Christ at the center as On the Incarnation does

    • [14:49] Using reason can obscure Jesus’ power to affect us directly

      • What’s needed in our modern context

      • Manifested in the Church, Eucharist, miracles

  • [17:00] Joey: Athanasius is using philosophy to “clear the ground” to get people from an experience with Jesus to deeper faith

    • [17:37] David: Scripture says to “always be ready to have a reason for your faith”

    • [18:20] Keith: not accurate to Athanasius’ context; Christ is manifested in the Church

      • Modern approach doesn’t trust Jesus to be enough

      • Looking for reasons/arguments outside the Church ignores existing ways to “enter into the life of Christ”

    • [21:09] Joey: the mind/reason engages at some point

      • Problem: we get it backwards by addressing reason first

      • David: sainthood isn’t about knowledge

    • [23:17] On encountering Christ

    • [25:30] Joey: the mind must be involved in experiencing Jesus, especially to record those experiences in words

      • Keith: those experiences came out of ascetic practice, not intellectual

      • David: “the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth”

    • [26:55] Keith: experience with Christ doesn’t have to involve reason/philosophy

      • Example of brother’s work with special needs kids

      • “The way we know God is without words”

      • Words are not totally excluded: prayers, Bible, etc., but Christ is at center

  • [30:23] Keith: we’re drawn to Athanasius because of his emphasis on Christ

  • [31:22] Drawing connections to Athanasius’ work The Life of St. Antony

  • [33:04] Becoming more like Christ = becoming more fully human

 

Links and Resources

 

A resource of the Chattanooga House of Prayer